It can't, if you fit some tank to the Hulk and mine in higher security systems than 0.5. Being aligned and able to warp out if something looks like it's going wrong, and/or using an alt to summon CONCORD to the belt is also handy.

I mean it doesn't sound like you exactly made much effort to gank-proof your barge, so what do you expect is gonna happen?

Linking the KM is not really necessary, since anyone who has flown a hulk already knows they are paper thin. At a certain point, it is possible to add extra tank by removing mining laser upgrades, but this severely hinders the ISK you earn for your time, which is already considerably lower than any other ISK earning activity.

Should high sec hulks be gankable? YES

Should a lone, poorly fit thorax be able to gank a well fit hulk before concord arrives? NO

Should two poorly fit thoraxes be able to do it? YES

In one Eve video, a new player comes to the aid of a hulk under assault. This is not actually possible, as hulks evaporate so quickly. Even if you are there waiting to shoot an aggressor, he can still typically finish the hulk off before he gets popped. Improving the Hulk's survivability, and thereby allowing him to call for player help, would go a long way towards making the game more enjoyable. Slowing the response time of concord would probably be necessary as well, but that could also help to appease the ganking community.

Sums it up nicely: risk vs reward.
If you want to mine in 0.5 with no tank, well, your choice but don't complain when the inevitable happens...

The mining barge is a tool that is meant to be guarded to do its task, including the exhumer

nerf CONCORD, make it easier/safer to gank people in hisec.

i.e. in 0.5, CONCORD doesn't show for GCC (navies do). You can avoid the navy legally*.
Now 0.5 sec mining fleets warrant having a defence fleet.


*change aggression mechanics to prevent docking. Jumping *MAY* be OK (i.e. priates can GTFO to low... if they GTFO to hi, well hilarity will ensue when CONCORD murders them on the gate). Navies can see through cloaks and stuff to keep people from safing up and cloaking.

1. don't sit the hulks on the warpin (or don't use a hulk)
2. shield ganglinks
3. tank the hulks
4. Rebo'd Falcon or other Ewar platform
5. ???


If all you're in it for is the isk, then run the damn incursion, but then don't ***** when mineral prices continue to rise because no one's mining.

There is obviously a market for clues on how to tank your hulks. There is also clearly a market for mining ships with enough inherent tank that they are a challenge to gank even when failfit.

ORE's R&D department is working on the latter. For the former I refer you to my good friends Invulnerability Field II and Damage Control Unit II. With judicious application of these fine fellows and fleet boosters (you do have a fleet, right?) it is possible to make a Hulk quite difficult to kill with a T1 fit ship.

funny, we've found low and NPC null quite nice for mining...

We've mined in Basgerin, Mya, Gerper, and out in Molden Heath -- locations usually depend on where we can find grav sites. Though I don't see why it matters at this point, with trit being as stupidly expensive as it is, there's no need to hunt for stuff in low anymore.

ed -- also, camping the gates is immensely helpful

Actually, in my experience ganked hulks are fit for max cargo or mining rate, with tank a secondary consideration unless at war.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392397
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392398
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15439177
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15389480

And apparently, with tank a secondary consideration *even if at war*.

Here's one solidly tanked, but pretty clearly not a suicide gank as well:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15436306

no idea. Depends where we find a nice grav site.

It was a serious attempt at tanking, but he took a hulk out mining (apparently solo) while at war.

Note also that there's a *lot* of resists on there. You have to multiply the raw damage dealt by at least 2.5 to account for those resists.

20K damage in 20 seconds or less for ganking would require a fit capable of 1000 DPS. That is certainly possible, but you aren't doing it for *that* much less than the cost of the Hulk.

Not all the time. Sometimes the hulk can win , this was a counter by someone against hulkaggeddon pilots

That analogy might actually make sense if you replaced "pickup truck" with "armored fighting vehicle" and "crashing into" with "firing anti-tank weapons". It isn't a case of two civilian vehicles ramming eachother, it is a case of a dedicated combat ship attacking a civilian industrial ship.

Or you could just use common sense and always be aligned to a safe / station / what so ever.

As soon as someone starts to yellow box you, you hit the warp button and off you go.

One interceptor, 5 medium drones for every miner on site.

Why wait for CONCORD once you have permission to shoot?

Or, if you *must* run solo, run tanked. 20KEHP isn't that hard to achieve and it takes a lot of destroyers to chew through that before CONCORD comes knocking.


You need more skills than the hull skills to fly *any* ship effectively, why should the Hulk be an exception?

[quote=Miss Whippy]

The Royal Engineers don't send one guy in a bulldozer alone to build a bridge.

Nobody seems to have pointed this out but the Hulk fits listed before, had a shield tank of around 26k EHP.

Doesnt seem that much does it.

Then you consider something like a Rapier, a dedicated combat vessel has between 24k and 30k EHP.

Yea Whippy, I'm sorry but I'ved tried to gank Hulks with a DPS thorax and Concord killed me before I even got through armor.

Maybe it can be done now with the buff to hybrid weapons, but even if it can, then why shouldn't it? Suicide ganking is part of the game. You gotta watch out, and not AFK mine.

Yeh I think hulks have a decent tank and you dont even have to sacrifice much of your mining yield. DMG control and MLU upgrade in the low with buffer shield gives you 23k EHP and you only lose about 130m3/second compared to two MLU. Tank isnt quite as high but its a good compromise. With an orca with siege warfare link it give you 27k.

Like anything else in eve the best way to win is to have more intel than your opponent. Choose a quiet out of the way system Keep an eye on local and dscan, make friends with the local mining corps to find out who regular gankers are. If you blindly mine you deserve to get ganked.

to be fair the rapier vs hulk analogy isn't fair. pick a ship that is equal in market cost or material requirements. like a phobos is in both.

Hulk/Phobos
Atmospheric gases 500 / 500
cadmium 900 / 1500
caesium 200 / 200
chromium 300 / 600
cobalt 800 / 1400
dysprosium 100 / 200
evaporite deposites 900 / 1100
hafnium 100 / 100
hydrocarbons 900 / 1600
mercury 500 / 500
neodymium 500 / 500
platinium 800 / 1100
promethium 200 / 300
scandium -
silicates 1,200 / 2100
technium 600 / 600
thulium 100 / 100
titanium -
tungsten -
vandium 200 / 200

Hulk median price 225
Phobos median price 215
(eve-central)

Now i doubt that anyone would make the argument that a hulk can be tanked like a phobos, im not going to either. thats just stupid.

However, i would like to point out that the base stats for the phobos are quite a lot better. (oh wait you say, you are comparing a heavy brawler to an industrial ship! thats hardly a fair comparison, an armor tank to a shield at that! the claymore/onyx so vastly outclasses the hulk that comparing them even on paper is ridiculous. )

going back to rapier vs hulk, a more honest comparison would be between the Lachesis and the hulk, neither one trades tank for a cloak (cause neither one is bonused to warping cloaked) the lachesis can easily achieve a 30k buffer and doesn't sacrifice its bonused abilities. however, the lachesis costs somewhere in the realm of 120 million. not exactly a good cost comparison.

I would sacrifice cargo for buffer. since the introduction of the orca it isnt necessary for the hulk to be the solo mining king. even in line with the ORE origins lore, it should be better at tanking then it is.

lets drop the cargo capacity to say 3k or whatever the max yeild off a single strip II is (bonused mindlink implants whatever) + 200m/3 for spare crystals. and increase the buffer, either in its ability to fit LSE II or base resists or shield amounts whatever.

Id like a ship that can mine in nullsec tank the rat battleship spawns and be the best at what it does, the huge cargo doesnt do much for making people get into fleets.

I call it not knowing how to read a killmail.

9k is HP *after resists*, which that particular ship was loaded with.

Industrials are supposed to be defenseless.

You don't see 18 wheelers with machine guns mounted on them in modern times so I doubt ships meant to do similar functions would do the same in the future.

If there is something that must be protected, other vehicles and sometimes aircraft will provide protection for the transport vehicle. As a result in EVE if you want to keep your industrials safe, you are going to need to play with others.

I feel that the suicide gankers are helping EVE. They are forcing miners to either accept the fact the game is an MMO or perish in the process. I honestly get rather annoyed when people want to nerf activities that can easily be countered.

Compared to other mining ships, they are indeed far more resilient. That doesn't mean they should become impervious to the dangers of space. Nothing in that description states it should be able to withstand heavy attacks from other players. Plus these descriptions are for the sake of lore anyway. Danger could mean anything from bumping into other ships to bursts of gamma radiation.

More BS

Like the cloak it cant use during combat because it cant perform its job while using it/locked up.

Or those webs which get it regularly primaried.

I tanked 5 Tengus for 1-2 minutes yesterday before a scimitar landed on grid and applied reps.

Now admittedly a Rapier is a little faster, and does have the ability to control range but its a combat ship, your Indy easily has more EHP and a lower sig, the problem isnt the Hulk, its the preparedness of the pilot.

(Incidentally taking off the Photon Scattering on that hulk fit, will allow you to fit an MLU and you will find it to have the same EHP as the Rapier i listed)

So what do you suggest, make them immune to all attack, give them the EHP of a Titan, however much you buff there EHP it will still die if you are not attentive, its a fact.

Hulks have enough EHP, they just need there pilots there actively trying to survive, not afking somewhere.

You still wrote quite a bit for not caring that much. At least the OP actually appeared to not care about what I said, probably because it renders everything she said invalid.